Looking for "Middle Ground" in the Atheist community?

The last two years has seen a whole lot of debate in the online atheist, skeptic, and secular activist communities.  No surprise there, right?  But instead of atheists debating theists, skeptics debating the claims of the credulous, or secularists working against excess influence of religion in politics, much of the recent debates have centered on the current popular forms of social progressivism and particularly feminism.  There is not a thing at all wrong with this- it is, in my opinion, at least a part of what should be happening.  If you identify as a skeptic, a person who uses reason to decide their beliefs and actions, with recourse to evidence and a scientific perspective to inform you rather than commandments from wherever,  then you should already know that for this mode of thought and action to really work, NO subject can be off limits.  Subgroups in the community can have their "safe spaces", of course, where concepts can be refined, but those "safe spaces" cannot then easily function as a platform for the inevitable, needed discussions involving the whole community.

Sadly, much of the debate has been highly polarized, irrational, and ugly.  I believe one of the main reasons for this is that the fundamental reality of the debate and discussion has been largely ignored and misunderstood.  It is often portrayed as an Us vs Them: a pro-social justice and feminism side, and a side which is often conveniently and dishonestly labelled as "anti-social justice", or "anti-equality", or "woman-hating rape apologists" or "old sexist racist white d00ds defending their privilege", or other slurs, shaming labels, and bullshit.

In the context of the greater atheist/skeptic/secular communities, I don't see an Us vs Them.  I see something very much like political Entryism , combined with elements of a "putsch" where one group that is similar to or already a part of a larger group, tries to pull the larger group along to a more specific or radical alignment, as is not afraid to also try to replace existing leadership on whatever pretext available.  The current popular propaganda is that if you do not openly support a given social justice or feminist cause or perspective, and agree with their theories, then you are actively against the group professing it, and must therefore also be against equality, women, minorities, etc, even if you don't know it.  Even if you're just "blinded by your privilege."  Thus, the majority, well meaning and ready to discuss and debate, is painted as a sick and misanthropic group of cretins.  It's both funny and sad to see fairly well-educated middle-class liberals and their younger energetic followers act as if they are the first people to read and understand feminist literature or a sociology text.  These are groups with a very low number of conservatives and traditionalists, compared to the wider population. These are astoundingly liberal groups, and even the conservative and libertarian members tend toward a big-tent policy as far as concerns the larger communities.  The "other side" in this discussion, the "woman-hating rape apologists" side, does not exist.  What that "side" is, is the majority, a generally liberal and open-minded majority, who are simply not all  currently aligned with the furthest-left end of the progressive sub-group.    

So, if you are looking for that "middle ground"...
.
  1.  It's all around you already!

The atheist, skeptical, and secularist communities are quite diverse, even though there is overlap and shared goals, and many tend toward generally liberal to progressive in politics.  There is no shortage of perspectives.  I encourage everyone to read as many blogs as they can, to see where they fit in, to get comfortable, and still try to understand others.  Not only that, but maybe even further investigate the ideas presented outside the politics of the community. One positive result I have seen from the ongoing debates is that many new bloggers, who had only read and commented before, are throwing their hats into the ring, willing to stand up and take responsibility for their ideas.  Even though the market is bigger than in the past and more watered-down, some bloggers who have written for smaller audiences are finding their readership growing.

2.  If you want even more middle ground, you need to MAKE MORE!
Write. Blog.  At least comment in good faith at blogs or forums you like.  Express your ideas, and be willing to take responsibility for them.  Be willing to listen, be willing to think, be willing to interact, and be willing to talk back when you have something to say.  After almost ten years of reading and exploring the issues, these recent debates played a role in getting me to be more active.  You want to talk to the community?  DO IT!  The worst anyone can do is ignore you.  Or call you a hateful scumbag misogynist.  Or make unflattering photoshop parodies of you, although you generally have to be a pretentious ass to get much of that.


I don't see any deep community rift here...I see a potential second flowering of a wonderful and valuable internet and real-life community.  Call me an optimist.

So...what do you see?

   

My email to CFI in support of Ron Lindsay

  To put it bluntly: A small number of extremely vocal bloggers and speakers have decided that the core mission of all skeptical, secularist, and atheist organizations and communities must be to support a number of "progressive" liberal political ideals, and that any individuals who do not comply immediately, without discussion or debate, must be silenced, ousted, shamed and shunned. They have zero interest in skepticism, and their only interest in secularism extends no further than how it can help their political agenda. Included in this group are bloggers and speakers PZ Myers, Ophela Benson, Stephanie Svan, and Jason Thibault of Freethought Blogs, Rebecca Watson of Skepchick, and Amanda Marcotte.

  I only name a few of the most vocal, and the only reason I name them is so that you can take the time to see what these people actually say and do. PZ Myers recently posted a blog offering the opinion that anyone who identifies as a "Men's Right's Activist" is simply a mass-murderer of women without the guts to pull the trigger. Amanda Marcotte recently penned a hit piece on atheist/secular activist Justin Vacula, claiming that he believes "women exist to serve men", simply because Justin does not agree with her that atheism logically leads directly to feminism. Some of these people have been directly involved in "outing" or "doxxing" people who disagree with them, so that their followers can call employers, harass, and intimidate. Some of them have been seeking to get people fired from their jobs, ousted from organizations, and attempting to establish blacklists of people not welcome to speak at or even attend events, all for the crime of disagreeing with their politics or their morally bankrupt tactics. Obviously false threat narratives, claiming harassment and fear of violence, have been built up around many individuals who dare to disagree with these ideologues.

  You now have a case of this treatment in your own organization. For simply noting what is obvious to any casual reader of these individual's blogs, that limited sociological terms are often used to silence dissent and vilify people who disagree with their views, Ron Lindsay has been called a sexist, a misogynist, a "thug in a cheap suit" (PZ Myers), and the hounds are now baying for blood.  These individuals and their supporters have little or nothing to do with secularism or ending religious discrimination, and are almost the polar opposite of "skeptics". They respect no science that does not validate their worldview, and they cannot tolerate even a hint of debate or open discussion. They openly mock the principle of free speech as being only a cover for hatred and bigotry and oppression. In their minds, anyone being allowed to talk back, instead of permanently "shutting up and listening", is oppression. How people so privileged became such experts on oppression is anyone's guess, but they certainly have no intention of "checking their own privilege" or "shutting up and listening" to anyone.



  I hope that you will take the time to see the full picture here. I hope that you will support Ron Lindsay, and keep a careful watch on those who seem to think their voices are the only ones that matter. Irrational ideologues like this are poisonous to any movement, but especially to one based on skepticism, freethought, and open discussion. I and many others will be watching the outcome of this particular "putsch", and I for one will not support any organization that gives these individuals any more influence than they already have. Again, please support Ron Lindsay in this matter. He has done nothing wrong and simply said out loud what so many reasonable people in our community, men and women, liberal and conservative alike, have been thinking lately. He couldn't have been nicer about it, yet witness what such consideration gets one in return...ridiculous accusations and outright dishonesty and hatred. Do not pander to these poisonous ideologues, it will benefit nobody.

I thank you for your time.

Sincerely,
Neil Terry

In the interests of full disclosure, I made some small changes to my original email, which was written hastily.  I removed a three-word redundancy, I added Ron Lindsay's name earlier in the text, since some now might read this and not know to whom I was referring, and I corrected a misspelling.

If you are familiar with the internal political on-goings in the relatively small atheist/skeptical/secular communities, you might have a clue as to what this is all about.

If not, hello and welcome!  At this point, all I can say for online Atheism is...we're not all liars and ideologues, so sorry if you got a bad impression.    

A Word to the Wise; or, How Many Privilege Checks Does It Take To Chafe My Bunghole?

   

This is my favorite piece of sketch comedy ever.

Sadly, the reason I am posting it is because I couldn't find a shorter clip.  The part I want is at 50 seconds in.

To PZ Myers, Rebecca Watson, Melody Hensley, and more than a few other bloggers and assorted professional victims:  

Shut your festering gob, you tit!

Really though...don't.  Keep speaking your mind.  Just quit pretending that you are oppressed, or speak for oppressed people in any meaningful way.  

It's getting a bit pathetic.

Your type really does make me puke, though.  That's just a fact. 

My Favorite Conservatives #1

I assure you I am quite serious with my first pick for My Favorite Conservatives.  I am not one for hero worship or personality cults, but I have long respected the outspoken, freethinking, and skeptical views of self-identified conservative, entrepreneur, and fellow freethinker and religious skeptic, Frank Zappa.

Yes, he was primarily a musician and family man, and not a politician, statesman, philosopher, or scientist.  Yet I find his views, as much as he made public, are as well thought out and principled as those of any politician in office today or in recent memory, or any slacktivist blogger for that matter.  He preferred minimal government, low taxes, and was as much an absolutist as myself on issues of free speech and expression.  But he was also....a thinker, plain and simple.  

Lead up post: My Favorite Conservatives

This is an opening post to kick off a series based on my favorite conservatives and their thoughts...it may be a short series, depending on how may corpses I can dig up that fit the bill.  I will be taking a look at some of my favorite conservatives, some of their representative quotes, and most importantly, as this is not about hero worship or idols, their ideas and ideals that may have some relevance today.  First though, some explanation and definitions.     

  

In my lifetime, there has been a noticeable dearth of people who self-identify as conservatives, or whose political leanings seem conservative, who are worth listening to at all.  While many normal working folks are conservatives, not very many of them are any good at defending their beliefs or even explaining them in any coherent way.  Most of the self-identified conservatives I know do little more than fill up my facebook feed with idiotic "liberal conspiracy" theories, pure, seething, rabid hatred of Obama(but they are NOT RACIST...not at all...no, really, not at all, I know because they keep telling me so), and the conviction that any social, governmental, or community solution to a problem, no matter how necessary or beneficial, is the feared specter of oppressive communism rearing it's head.  Very few of them are capable of talking about any kind of systemic problem realistically, or ever admitting when a social solution is the best solution to a problem.  But...they're not really evil.  To me it seems that most conservatives, like most people everywhere, are good-natured, hard-working, morally upright, well-meaning idiots.  And, as with every group of people, at least a few are small-minded, ignorant, and bigoted idiots as well.  But there are in fact more than a few conservative people with good ideas, and there are more than a few good ideas that happen to be considered "conservative" these days.  It seems to me that many people aren't even aware that many of the ideas and ideals now considered politically "conservative" in America, are actually ideals first seriously championed during the European Enlightenment, are the philosophical and political foundations of both the United States and of most of the modern West, and are known generally as "Liberalism" in the history of Western politics.  Funny how words change, innit?

Dream Journal #1- I Shit Thee Not: This Is What My Dreams Are Like.

When I first considered writing a blog, one of the ideas I thought might be interesting was to keep a dream journal.  I tend to be a very deep sleeper, and rarely remember a dream upon waking, maybe 3-6 times per year at most.  But the ones I do remember...
...oh my.   
There have been a dozen or so over the years that I can still remember vividly today....real brain-fucks.  They tend to be long, richly detailed, plotted along some ridiculous and often ambiguous narrative, and deeply weird.  Not usually violent or gory, but weird to the point of being more than a bit disturbing.  Today's early morning dream was no exception, and yes, this is honestly what I dreamed.  I only put down what I could remember immediately afterward.


I am sitting in the front passenger seat of a moving car, looking out at passing fog and dim shapes, lost in a reverie.  The murky outside scene passing by reminds me of morning rides to school in the wintertime. I'm aware that my mom is driving the car, and saying something I can't quite make out in my daze.   I try to hear  what she's saying, and start to gather my senses...

We're both adults, our current ages, but we're in our old family car- a grey 1985 Chevy Cavalier which is now long gone.  I've missed what she said, and ask "I'm sorry, what was that?"

She replies, somewhat aware that I wasn't paying attention, "Oh, nothing, I just said 'thank you for coming with me for this', you didn't have to, but I appreciate your help."

"Of course, no problem!  Good to get out and about anyway!", I reply.

 I have no idea where we're going....I almost ask, but then I remember.....that's right....we're going to the Valley Plaza Mall in Bakersfield, to buy a harmonica for....someone, and she wanted to make sure she got a good one.  It occurs to me that nobody sells harmonicas at the mall....and why drive to Bakersfield to get one anyway?

December so far: A Birthday, an Anniversary, and Mmmmmmmmbeefygoodness...

A couple of things I wanted to share with whoever might be reading out there- both of them late.  In the way of excuses, I never really meant to do a lot of daily-life-type blogging, as it all happens too fast for a slacker like myself to chronicle.  If I try to live life while writing about it in real time, I'll get nowhere fast...I know my limits.  I try to force the world to slow down a bit by procrastinating as much and as often as I can, but it just keeps on spinning no matter what I do(or don't).  The lead in my ass doesn't provide enough friction, apparently.

First, a belated Happy Birthday to my one and only sibling Renee, born Dec 8th 1969.  A full 1127 days older than me, at 43 years old she's doing pretty well considering her advanced age.(joke)  She has always been the absolute best big sister a guy could have.(no joke)  Weird story-I remember one year on her 11th birthday some creepy dude Mark tried to impress her by shooting John Lennon, but that's not the kind of guy my sister would go for anyway, and all it did was piss off Mom something awful.(bad joke)  Crazy days.  I hope you had a great birthday, Renee, and I hope you enjoyed spending it cleaning out your garage.(no joke)  Wow, the crazy party times those 40-somethings go in for, eh?  Either way, Happy Birthday to a great sister.  I have it on good authority that you're a great mom, too.  I'm pretty sure my niece and nephew wouldn't lie about that.  Maybe I'll be able to visit next year and we can clean out the rain gutters!(joke?)    

Also, a happy late 11th Blog-o-versary to the Stupid Evil Bastard at stupidevilbastard.com, also known as Les Jenkins, who crossed the 11-year mark on Dec 2nd. I've been reading his stuff for about 71/2 years now, since the summer of 2005, and I still check in at least once a day to see if anything interesting has crossed his mind.  If you enjoy a healthy dose of skepticism & critical thinking, or a bit of gaming & tech, or wonder what a rational and well-meaning non-believer thinks of all the crazy religious, superstitious, social and tribal things that humans do or all the crazy scams people fall for, or if you just want to read the musings of a cool guy from Michigan, check out the Stupid Evil Bastard.  Do it.  Though I've been slow to start my own writing, I can say without hesitation that it was Les' blog, along with Brent Rasmussen and the other guys at the now-defunct Unscrewing the Inscrutable that inspired me to think that I too could haul out a digital soapbox and join the party.  Thanks Les, for the inspiration and the entertainment, and keep up the good work!

Now back to the business of living....what the hell am I going to have for dinner tonight?  There are only a couple of frozen pork chops at home, but I don't really feel like pork, and I didn't want to go shopping until the new sales papers come out tomorrow....oh, bother and fuck...decisions, decisions.  I want to keep it healthy, so....pizza, or Vons deli fried chicken?  Oooooh, come to think of it, Vons has tri-tip for $3.47/lb this week.....not quite as cheap as I like it, but the sale ends tomorrow and I still have some A-1 sauce at home(BBQ snobs can laugh all they want, I love that shit).  Yup, tri-tip steaks it is, pan-seared in olive oil with some fresh crushed garlic & onion, and maybe a little salad.  Screw the starch, croutons are good enough.  mmmmmmbeefy goodness.  They better not be sold out, whoever they've got running the meat dept there has a bad habit of not ordering enough of the sale items.

mmmmmmmmmmbeefygoodness....by all the Gawds, it will be mine tonight!

             A cow-map to help YOU find mmmmmmmmbeefygoodness.  I already know where the fuck it is!

That's it for now, I'm busy with thoughts of mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmbeefygoodness.